Confiscation Reference December 2012

[Reverse chronological order]

December 21, 2012
Daily Kos: How to Ban Guns: A step by step, long term process
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2012/12/21/1172661/-How-to-Ban-Guns-A-step-by-step-long-term-process

December 20, 2012
Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo: “Confiscation could be an option. Mandatory sale to the state could be an option. Permitting could be an option — keep your gun but permit it.”
https://www.nytimes.Com/2012/12/21/nyregion/cuomo-says-he-will-outline-gun-measures-next-month.html?_r=1&

December 19, 2012
Detroit Metro Times: Ban all guns, now
https://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/ban-all-guns-now/Content?oid=2147131

December 19, 2012
Opinionator – New York Times: Why Gun ‘Control’ Is Not Enough
https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/19/why-gun-control-is-not-enough/

December 19, 2012
House Dem: ‘Turn in your guns’
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/273753-house-dem-calls-on-people-to-turn-in-your-guns

December 18, 2012
Huffington Post: It’s Not About the Constitution [Getting rid of the Second Amendment]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-kenney/its-not-about-the-constit_b_2320371.html

December 18, 2012
Eugene Robinson: First, Get Rid of the Guns
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/first-get-rid-of-the-guns/

December 15 2012
Economist The gun control that works: no guns
https://www.economist.com/blogs/lexington/2012/12/gun-control


How to Ban Guns: A step by step, long term process
sporks
Community
Friday December 21, 2012 · 3:20 AM PST

The very first thing we need is national registry. We need to know where the guns are, and who has them. …
Along with this, make private sales illegal. When a firearm is transferred, make it law that the registration must be updated. Again, make it super easy to do. Perhaps over, the internet. Dealers can log in by their FFLs and update the registration. Additionally, new guns are to be registered by the manufacturer. The object here is to create a clear paper trail from factory to distributor to dealer to owner. We want to encourage as much voluntary compliance as possible.

Now we get down to it. The registration period has passed. Now we have criminals without registered guns running around. Probably kooky types that “lost” them on a boat or something. So remember those ATF form 4473s? Those record every firearm sale, going back twenty years. And those have to be surrendered to the ATF on demand. So, we get those logbooks, and cross reference the names and addresses with the new national registry. Since most NRA types own two or (many) more guns, we can get an idea of who properly registered their guns and who didn’t. For example, if we have a guy who purchased 6 guns over the course of 10 years, but only registered two of them, that raises a red flag.

Now, maybe he sold them or they got lost or something. But it gives us a good target for investigation. A nice visit by the ATF or state police to find out if he really does still have those guns would be certainly warranted. It’s certainly not perfect. People may have gotten guns from parents or family, and not registered them. Perfect is the enemy of pretty darn good, as they say.

I’m concerned that other guy who bought a half dozen assault weapons, registered two hunting rifles, and belongs to the NRA/GOA. He’s the guy who warrants a raid.

So registration is the first step. Now that the vast majority are registered, we can do what we will. One good first step would be to close the registry to new registrations. This would, in effect, prevent new guns from being made or imported. This would put the murder machine corporations out of business for good, and cut the money supply to the NRA/GOA. As money dries up, the political capital needed for new controls will be greatly reduced.

There are a few other things I would suggest. I would suggest an immediate, national ban on concealed carry. A ban on internet sales of guns and ammunition is a no brainer. Microstamping would also be a very good thing. Even if the only thing it does is drive up costs, it could still lead to crimes being solved. I’m willing to try every advantage we can get.


We must make guns expensive and unpopular, just like cigarettes. A nationwide, antigun campaign paid for by a per gun yearly tax paid by owners, dealers, and manufacturers would work well in this regard. We should also segway into an anti-hunting campaign, like those in the UK. By making hunting expensive and unpopular, we can make the transition to a gun free society much less of a headache for us.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2012/12/21/1172661/-How-to-Ban-Guns-A-step-by-step-long-term-process

December 20, 2012
Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo: “Confiscation could be an option. Mandatory sale to the state could be an option. Permitting could be an option — keep your gun but permit it.”

Cuomo Says He’ll Outline Gun Proposal Next Month
By THOMAS KAPLAN DEC. 20, 2012
Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said Thursday that he had started discussions with leaders of the State Legislature about new gun control measures, and that he planned to propose a package of gun legislation in his State of the State address on Jan. 9.

In the interview, Mr. Cuomo did not offer specifics about the measures he might propose, but, while discussing assault weapons, he said: “Confiscation could be an option. Mandatory sale to the state could be an option. Permitting could be an option — keep your gun but permit it.”
https://www.nytimes.Com/2012/12/21/nyregion/cuomo-says-he-will-outline-gun-measures-next-month.html?_r=1&

Detroit Metro Times: Ban all guns, now
Nobody needs to have a handgun in America — period
By Jack Lessenberry

Nobody needs to have a handgun in America.

Nobody needs to have guns in their home, period.

That should be the starting point for any discussion about gun control in our insanely murderous society.

Any other position is equivalent to arguing, as “moderates” did in the 1850s, that we ought to slowly phase out slavery, that even though everybody “knew” Negroes were clearly inferior to whites, slavery no longer made sense.

Slavery was never right. Nor is putting weapons of mass destruction where any person can effortlessly get them.

Someday, if these United States ever happen to approach something close to civilization, we will look back on those now defending the right to carry concealed weapons much as we today regard Nazi “theoreticians” like Joseph Goebbels.

Nobody, apart from the police, needs to walk around with guns. What about guns for target shooters and hunters? Fine. Long as they keep them locked away at the club or lodge.

Nobody needs guns in their homes. When the entire story surrounding the Connecticut elementary school massacre is sorted out, many will blame the mother of the shooter.

https://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/ban-all-guns-now/Content?oid=2147131

Opinionator – New York Times:Why Gun ‘Control’ Is Not Enough
By Jeff McMahan December 19, 2012 1:03 pm December 19, 2012 1:03 pm
The Stone

Americans are finally beginning to have a serious discussion about guns. One argument we’re hearing is the central pillar of the case for private gun ownership: that we are all safer when more individuals have guns because armed citizens deter crime and can defend themselves and others against it when deterrence fails. Those who don’t have guns, it’s said, are free riders on those who do, as the criminally disposed are less likely to engage in crime the more likely it is that their victim will be armed.

When most citizens are armed, as they were in the Wild West, crime doesn’t cease. The criminals get better.

There’s some sense to this argument, for even criminals don’t like being shot. But the logic is faulty, and a close look at it leads to the conclusion that the United States should ban private gun ownership entirely, or almost entirely.

One would think that if widespread gun ownership had the robust deterrent effects that gun advocates claim it has, our country would be freer of crime than other developed societies. But it’s not. When most citizens are armed, as they were in the Wild West, crime doesn’t cease. Instead, criminals work to be better armed, more efficient in their use of guns (“quicker on the draw”), and readier to use them. When this happens, those who get guns may be safer than they would be without them, but those without them become progressively more vulnerable.

https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/19/why-gun-control-is-not-enough/

House Dem: ‘Turn in your guns’
By Pete Kasperowicz – 12/19/12 05:40 PM EST
Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas) on Wednesday afternoon urged people to turn in their guns, arguing it would be an appropriate response to last week’s mass shooting in Newtown, Conn.

“I would personally just say to those who are listening, maybe you want to turn in your guns,” Jackson Lee said on the House floor. “Oh no, I’m not going to take your guns. But look at what Dick’s Sporting Goods did … they wanted to be part of the solution and part of America.”

Dick’s Sporting Goods announced this week that it would stop selling and displaying guns at its store closest to Newtown and would suspend the sale of modern sporting rifles nationwide out of respect for the victims of the shooting.

While Jackson Lee said she would not take guns away from people, she noted that she is the sponsor of legislation, H.R. 227. That bill would raise the eligibility to carry a handgun from 18 to 21 and ban people under 21 from possessing semiautomatic assault weapons.
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/273753-house-dem-calls-on-people-to-turn-in-your-guns

It’s Not About the Constitution
12/18/2012 05:21 pm 17:21:27 | Updated Feb 17, 2013
George Kenney

..
If that means getting rid of the Second Amendment, so be it. For those who feel this may be too much to ask an interim step could be to Amend Article Five, thus making further Amendments to the Constitution an easier, more straightforward and more democratic process. But unless and until we get rid of the Second Amendment no gun control law can escape remorseless, caustic litigation. Mass murder will remain a perpetual threat. And we will remain mired in helplessness.

Indeed, we defer far too many questions to constitutional law when we should be asking, at every opportunity, what kind of society do we want to live in? Where is the moral justice in what we do? How can we live fulfilling political lives without being in thrall to the dead hand of the past?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-kenney/its-not-about-the-constit_b_2320371.html

Dec 18, 2012
First, Get Rid of the Guns
We are not helpless to stop the massacre of innocent children. We must begin — today, right now, this minute — taking guns out of the hands of madmen, and the first step should be a ban on military-style assault weapons such as the rifle used to turn a Connecticut school into a slaughterhouse.

That won’t be enough to end all the carnage, but it will save some lives. It is admirable that President Obama, members of Congress and other elected officials are deeply horrified and saddened by what happened Friday in Newtown. But the moment calls for action, not words, and politicians who are too craven or stupid or ideologically rigid to finally move forward on gun control will have the blood of future victims on their hands.

We must begin with the guns.

There is no reason an everyday citizen needs to possess a Bushmaster AR-15-style semiautomatic rifle — the gun used not only in Newtown but in the Aurora, Colo., movie theater shootings and as recently as last week in a deadly shooting at a shopping mall near Portland, Ore. At the very least, these high-powered weapons developed for use by soldiers, not hunters, should be outlawed — and surrendered to authorities for destruction.
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/first-get-rid-of-the-guns/

The gun control that works: no guns
Why meaningful gun control is not going to happen
Dec 15th 2012 by Lexington
To that debate, all I can offer is the perspective of someone who has lived and worked in different corners of the world, with different gun laws.

The first time that I was posted to Washington, DC some years ago, the capital and suburbs endured a frightening few days at the hands of a pair of snipers, who took to killing people at random from a shooting position they had established in the boot of a car. I remember meeting a couple of White House correspondents from American papers, and hearing one say: but the strange thing is that Maryland (where most of the killings were taking place) has really strict gun laws. And I remember thinking: from the British perspective, those aren’t strict gun laws. Strict laws involve having no guns.

After a couple of horrible mass shootings in Britain, handguns and automatic weapons have been effectively banned. It is possible to own shotguns, and rifles if you can demonstrate to the police that you have a good reason to own one, such as target shooting at a gun club, or deer stalking, say. The firearms-ownership rules are onerous, involving hours of paperwork. You must provide a referee who has to answer nosy questions about the applicant’s mental state, home life (including family or domestic tensions) and their attitude towards guns. In addition to criminal-record checks, the police talk to applicants’ family doctors and ask about any histories of alcohol or drug abuse or personality disorders.


Nor is it the case that the British are relaxed about being subjects of a monarch, or are less fussed about freedoms. A conservative law professor was recently quoted in the papers saying he did not want to live in a country where the police were armed and the citizens not. I fear in Britain, at least, native gun-distrust goes even deeper than that: the British don’t even like their police to be armed (though more of them are than in the past).

https://www.economist.com/blogs/lexington/2012/12/gun-control

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Author: Torcer

Differential equations teaches us that one can use the initial conditions of the present to extrapolate events in the near term balanced with the knowledge of the past. The interaction of technological advances and the march of history is fascinating. History can inform those willing to listen as to what will happen in the future because the laws of human natural are as immutable as the elegant equations of Newtonian physics.

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